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The Death of Forced Continuity: A Review

The Death of Forced Continuity: A Review

deathfc cover 150x150 The Death of Forced Continuity: A ReviewRyan Deiss, who is a friend and mar­keter I highly respect, didn’t see eye-​​to-​​eye with me on some issues. One of them is cer­tainly forced continuity.

How­ever, just this morn­ing he released a new report, enti­tled, “The Death of Forced Con­ti­nu­ity.” I’ve read it, and it’s a good report. I rec­om­mend it.

Granted, Ryan’s intent in releas­ing this report is not 100% altru­is­tic. After all, he is, like me, a diehard capitalist.

Ryan sells a course on how to cre­ate con­ti­nu­ity pro­grams, and he cer­tainly makes the case for his own prod­uct in this report. How­ever, noble or not, he did switch gears and noticed a dra­matic improve­ment in his over­all prof­its, which he shares in this report.

So read it because it con­tains a few very pow­er­ful lessons on the sub­ject of forced con­ti­nu­ity, and what you can do instead to make more money with con­ti­nu­ity programs.

Now, I won’t go into detail with regards to what I feel about forced con­ti­nu­ity (I have done so sev­eral times already on this blog). But let me add a few addi­tional comments.

I believe in con­ti­nu­ity pro­grams. And I don’t mind forced con­ti­nu­ity as a con­sumer, either. But I’m not a fan of it.

How­ever, there’s a dif­fer­ence between using and abus­ing forced con­ti­nu­ity. The lat­ter is the one I have an issue with.

I per­son­ally wouldn’t use it myself, but I do believe it is a legit­i­mate sales tool. What I don’t like about it is that it has such great poten­tial for being misused.

It’s being abused by a few unscrupu­lous mar­keters, who are delib­er­ately poi­son­ing the well for the rest of us.

That’s when they hide it or “switch” it.

(My wife calls this “sleight-​​of-​​hand con­ti­nu­ity” in her con­tro­ver­sial report, “Inter­net Mar­ket­ing Sins.”

Forced con­ti­nu­ity is when a mar­keter sells prod­uct “A,” but in order to get it you must sub­scribe to prod­uct “B,” which is a con­ti­nu­ity pro­gram. To buy prod­uct “A.,” you are forced onto the con­ti­nu­ity pro­gram “B,” in other words.

This, in itself, is per­fectly fine.

The issue is when prod­uct “A” is a veiled attempt at get­ting peo­ple on a con­ti­nu­ity pro­gram. To a large extent, this isn’t bad either. What’s bad is when:

A) Prod­uct “A” is com­pletely dif­fer­ent and irrel­e­vant to the offer. Usu­ally, it’s a big give­away of tons o’ free stuff, with a mas­sive price tag, and one for which you only have to pay ship­ping or, at the very least, $1.

(If you have to pay ship­ping or even just a dol­lar, it’s no longer free, in my esti­ma­tion. But that’s another rant for another day.)

Nev­er­the­less, it can’t be free. You have to pay this small amount, because they need your credit card to bill you on the back­end for con­ti­nu­ity prod­uct “B.”

B) The con­ti­nu­ity offer is hid­den or mud­died in tiny print some­where, often only in the last step of the whole pur­chase process — i.e., the order form or before checkout.

The rea­son I think this is slimy is because they are hid­ing the real rea­son they’re mak­ing the offer — espe­cially if it’s a sup­pos­edly free one.

But many mar­keters will slide in the con­ti­nu­ity in the back­end as a bonus, usu­ally a free trial (e.g., the first month, or 30 days, being free, but then your credit card gets ham­mered every month thereafter).

This sleight of hand (accord­ing to most laws, this is a ver­sion of “bait and switch,” which is ille­gal in most locales) not only leaves a bad taste in people’s mouths, but the chances they will buy addi­tional, back­end offers are con­sid­er­ably lessened.

Why? Because once bit­ten, twice shy.

They may like your offer. They may like you. Heck, they may even like your prod­uct and the con­ti­nu­ity pro­gram, too. But they know what they went through the first time. And chances are, they will think you will use this tac­tic again on them.

Besides, when mar­keters add the con­ti­nu­ity on the last step of the pur­chase process, their prospects have just invested a ton of time and effort in read­ing their copy, in choos­ing to buy from them, and in trust­ing them thus far.

Aban­don­ing the shop­ping cart at this point seems much less appeal­ing, after all this emo­tional and psy­cho­log­i­cal invest­ment they’ve made.

(And forced con­ti­nu­ity mar­keters who abuse the process rely on this. As my wife says, “They act as if they’re ashamed of their con­ti­nu­ity offers.” Or as my friend Armand Morin often says, “Why don’t they just sell the darn continuity?”)

Ryan makes the case for optional con­ti­nu­ity, and lists a healthy series of ben­e­fits on why it is far bet­ter than — and how he makes more money with it over — forced continuity.

I applaud him wholeheartedly.

In fact, in the report Ryan spells out the “take rate,” which at first may appear as lower with optional con­ti­nu­ity, but on the long-​​term, makes more money.

To save space, I rec­om­mend you go down­load his report, and read why he changed his phi­los­o­phy so dras­ti­cally. (I think my wife had a hand in this, but I’m just guess­ing.) ;)

Chances are, some­one who buys your prod­uct based on an optional con­ti­nu­ity will be hap­pier, more sat­is­fied, and a lot more con­fi­dent you won’t pull another fast one when you make addi­tional offers. So, you will likely sell more in the backend.

A lot more.

Besides, it’s good ol’ fash­ioned selling.

When I used to be in sales, one of the best tech­niques I was taught was “the assump­tive close.” The logic in this tech­nique is sim­ply this: you assume the sale. You assume your prospect is will­ing to go ahead. And when you do, the like­li­hood is that they will.

For exam­ple, they say that, rather than ask­ing a “yes or no” ques­tion, you should ask a “A or B” ques­tion instead. Rather than, “Mrs. Prospect, would you like to buy this car today?” Ask, “Would you pre­fer your car in red or in blue?”

If they answer “red,” or “blue,” then they’ve decided to go ahead.

This is what optional con­ti­nu­ity, in large part, does. For exam­ple, if peo­ple are pre­sented with just one offer, and they arrive at the order form where they see that the offer comes with a forced con­ti­nu­ity, they may be tempted to leave and aban­don the shop­ping cart.

It’s either buy it or don’t. Period.

But if you present them with two options, such as the main offer, and an alter­na­tive with an optional con­ti­nu­ity, you are giv­ing them a choice — rather than remov­ing it from them.

Bot­tom line, by adding the con­ti­nu­ity as an option, you also remove the poten­tial of leav­ing a bad taste in your cus­tomers’ mouths (even if it’s only sub­tle and neg­li­gi­ble), build a trust­wor­thy brand, and undoubt­edly increase trust.

To me, forced con­ti­nu­ity, or any other “trick” mar­keters use is like spam.

A spam­mer will send out mil­lions of emails know­ing full well that only a small per­cent­age of them will get through, get read, and get acted upon. Even though 80% of their emails are never deliv­ered, it only takes 20% to make spam work.

Think of it like a can of spam you throw against the wall. (Yes, the canned meat ver­sion.) Most of it will fall to the ground. But lit­tle bits of it will stick to the wall.

Gross, I know. But that’s just like email spam, isn’t it?

And it’s very much the same phi­los­o­phy a lot of bad mar­keters have. They attempt to skim the cream off the top of the bar­rel, as much as they can. They may only get 20%, but hey, it’s fast, imme­di­ate, and yes, “it works!” Right?

But they do this, with no care or atten­tion to the fact that their real cus­tomers — that long-​​term, highly prof­itable, and most nutri­tious part of the “mar­ket” — is in the larger bot­tom 80% of the milk barrel.

A final comment.

Ryan did use a few exam­ples in his report, but I think some of them were still wrong or slightly misleading.

For exam­ple, he used Proac­tiv Solu­tion to illus­trate forced con­ti­nu­ity. It’s cer­tainly a good exam­ple of forced con­ti­nu­ity. But if you look closely, the solution’s main offer is for a bot­tle of Proac­tiv, and then you get a month’s sup­ply, every sec­ond month, billed to your credit card.

The fact is, it’s still the same product!

Forced con­ti­nu­ity? Yes. But it’s not sleight of hand con­ti­nu­ity. They are not offer­ing, say, a free pack­age of acne pads and, oh by the way, you also get a bot­tle every other month of this solu­tion for $XX.XX thereafter.

Or even bet­ter, they are not offer­ing some­thing com­pletely dif­fer­ent or irrel­e­vant, like a makeup kit, hair­styling prod­ucts, or mama’s Ital­ian cook­ing recipes from the hill­sides of Tus­cany, in the front-​​end.

Even the Sports Illus­trated exam­ple Ryan used is a tad mis­lead­ing. Because, although you get the foot­ball phone, cal­en­dar with bikini-​​clad mod­els, or what­ever as a free bonus to sub­scrib­ing to Sports Illus­trated mag­a­zine, the main offer is still a sub­scrip­tion to Sports Illustrated!

The con­ti­nu­ity pro­gram is the main offer, while the bonuses are… well… bonuses. Bonuses for join­ing the con­ti­nu­ity pro­gram. Not a con­ti­nu­ity pro­gram as a bonus.

Any­way, go read Ryan’s report now. It’s an easy read and only 35 pages.

I’m in no way affil­i­ated and not get­ting any­thing from this rec­om­men­da­tion. Not a sin­gle penny. Ryan Deiss doesn’t even know I’m doing this. But I’m rec­om­mend­ing his report because I think it’s a good one with a pow­er­ful con­cept whose time has come.

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  • Michel,

    As usual, great stuff. Thanks... I have a lot of issue with the FC too. I appreciate your stance and also can see, without reading (although I will) Ryan's report.

    Like all things in the world of marketing and business, it's not the concept or the tool that is to blame but the people wielding it. It's not the gun but the idiot shooting it, so to speak.

    I am glad you brought up the Proactiv example for I was thinking just before that, "The world is different with a hard good, with a product that takes something more than digital space." For that's my business... I am in the high-end nutrition business and we use continuity as the heart and soul or the business. I create and sell the world's finest total nutrition shake, Full Strength. It's been scientifically proven to swap fat for muscle in the sort of research few dare to engage in... and my ave. customer sticks well over a year without any real ongoing support. I know, I know...much to do there...

    but I digress... the point is, if you make an exceptional product that overdelivers on your promise and you have the highest intentions, continuity is not a scam but good practice that actually supports people... especially with nutrition for so long as this delicious strength-food is there, you use it. Run out and you don't.

    And with HARD GOODS, you have the benefit that it arrives... people see it. The scum of scams are hidden... you don't see them. And you know, be aware that marketers online are NOT the only players... I find a new BS charge for $9+ every month from some affiliate related, opted in continuity that is in bed with a major brand, company and often even the ccard company itself. It's all over.

    The ultimate problem I see or greatest point of differentiation is that you are speaking about 2 different people here... the obvious crook who cares nothing about whether they lose people later and the businessman/ woman who is making a niave, greedy decision out of short sightedness. Not going to change the view and actions of A but the second group needs to know...

    Thanks to you and Ryan that do....

    In Strength,
    Shawn Phillips
    www.FullStrength.com
  • Michel,

    Just checking to see if I can log in to the correct email to get my Gravatar working... they are tricky beasts...

    Shawn
  • Hi Michel,

    Thanks for that post. I just recently experienced the ole bait and switch for what was supposed to be a "FREE" report. The offer plainly said it was a FREE report, but when you sign up for it, then you find out there's a shipping and handling fee.

    O.K. no problem, I still want the report, but then when you get to the end of the sales process, hidden in the deep recesses of the fine print is a statement that says you will also receive a free months subscription to blah, blah, blah magazine and if you elect to keep it longer than the thirty days from when their billing cycle begins, do nothing and your credit card will conveniently be billed $29.95 every month thereafter.

    Now you and I both know, that I will more than likely forget the date I ordered the alleged "freebie" and once that happens, the ole credit card takes a whoopin.

    You want to hear something funny? As I was making my way out of there, (shopping cart abandonment) a pop up appears asking me why I chose not to conclude my sale and it had a little area to make a comment. So I did.

    I said in rather plain terms that if the offer is free, then it should be Free. No shipping and handling and no sneaky magazine subscriptions. If your magazine rocks, announce it, if not, then don't bother selling it. Easy.

    What I really can't stand about these kind of offers is that the majority of the time, I like the marketer and once this happens, the trust factor takes a major hit.

    I realize in the end that marketing is marketing, but at some point, when do you take into consideration the way your marketing effects your business?

    I've done business in the automotive industry for over 20 years and have worked with and for a lot of snakes who pull this kind of crap all day long, so it gets a little irritating to see it in a business you actually like doing.

    Anyway that's enough of my rant.
    Thanks for the post and the privilege of commenting.

    Nando
  • Ryan Deiss, after reading my blog post, contacted me personally asking me if I wanted to become an affiliate and switch my blog post to my include my affiliate link. I refused.

    I want to make it absolutely clear that, when I posted about this, I did it without Ryan's knowledge, and that I'm not getting a single penny from this.

    Carry on. ;)
  • It appears the market is moving where it should. I don't know why so many people got away with it for so long but at least other people can see where this is heading.
  • Well said Michel.

    While I don't get too upset with the whole forced continuity thing (since it's basically a given in most cases these days), Ryan's report was a refreshing read.

    If someone's course or product is as good as their salesletter leads the reader to believe, then they shouldn't need to be forced into anything right?

    It would make sense to me that a marketer would sleep better at night knowing that every single member of their program was signed up and paying every month because they WANTED to be members and not just because they forgot to untick the box or opt-out or cancel before the 30days etc.

    It will be very interesting to see what effect this report has the IM community...maybe it will "butterfly" outward. :-)

    Hope you guys are well.

    Mike
  • @Shawn Phillips -

    YUCK! I hate when people use forced continuity. I didn't really know what you met until you explain it in detailed. Most of the sites will offer you a "free" product, but before you can use it, you have to give all your contact info, but what the sneaky bastards do is snatch your email and spam the crap out of your inbox. This is why I use fake email addresses. And you know what ends up happening? I get so annoyed that I don't even bother with the product at all. So, it is pointless to try to dupe someone out of a free email so you can spam the crap out of their inbox. So whack!
  • Michael
    I tried forced continuity in my business and it failed miserably.

    Here's what I don't get...

    You and many others have made the case that "It’s being abused by a few unscrupulous marketers, who are deliberately poisoning the well for the rest of us."

    ...yet go on to say your good friend 'so-and-so' recently ran a forced continuity, but their one of the good guys. I'm wondering who the "bad guys" are, because surely it's not the small-time internet marketer making a few hundred dollars a week online. He's not going to ruin it for everyone because he's barely going to be seen in the online world. It's really the big guns and gurus (not everyone, but some) who are doing it, yet getting excused for it every time they do it.
  • @Michael - I think the "bad guy" is really, anyone who's actually intending to deceive, who's trying to "get away" with something, be they small or large. It's not the sice of the theft it's the act of stealing.
  • @Health Website Content For Sale - YUCK! I hate when people abuse others open Blog comments in a thinly veiled attempt to get some traffic to some random (not word) offer.

    Oh, but wait... maybe that is your photo and that's the look of "Yuck" on your face.... funny, I was thinking it was more Yuck with an "F."

    :-)
  • @Michael - Michael, you make an excellent point.

    My point in general was that there are a lot guys who mean well, but they are simply doing it wrong. I know that some guys who are, at their core, really good guys.

    Admittedly, there are a few that are insidious. But it's not my place to judge. The point of the Sins Report and these blog posts is NOT to attack bad people but to attack bad practices. I want to focus on bad marketing, not bad marketers.

    As I've said many times, my goal is not to convince these guys to change their ways. That would be naive of me to think I'm capable of doing so. Some of these marketers believe in what they do, and they think there's nothing wrong. It's solidly entrenched in their mindsets.

    My true goal is SPECIFICALLY for the "small guy," as you've stated, who's reading this and either contemplating modeling or duplicating these questionable tactics, or buying from them.

    They do what some of these marketers teach, and not only do they repeat them but in many cases they do it all wrong. Perhaps even worse.

    Because top marketers often teach specific marketing methods, and some of them may be crossing the line. But they fail to teach how to be accountable or ethical to their own customers. After all, some of them just don't care.

    Heck, when top marketers teach these tactics, their students go out, do it wrong, and as a collective saturate the market. When too many "small fries" do it, then it paints the entire industry as a whole with huge broadstrokes that affect us all.

    Sure, one small "bad" marketer may not even make a dent. But how many "small guys" have you seen lately that do bad marketing? Personally, I've seen quite a lot. Just yesterday I've seen three of them.

    And when you see small guy after small guy doing this, it's easy to automatically think that the entire industry is like this.

    One top marketing guru is not representative of the whole. Even 2, 3 or 4 top gurus. But when you begin to see 10, 25, or 50 small-time marketers doing this, then it DOES make us all look bad.

    Internet marketing's stigma is that it's spammy and scammy. But is it really? People rarely come to that conclusion by only seeing a handful of top gurus doing this. They come to that conclusion after seeing one small guy after another repeating the same mistakes and doing it even worse.

    And that's the point.

    A lot of "small guys" try to be like the "big guys." They want to emulate them. They want to make as much money as them. And they naively replicate their bad marketing tactics.

    Look at it this way. When more and more small marketers do this, it no longer becomes one snake-oil salesman coming into town making a fuss. The Internet marketing industry is getting a bad name because it's becoming more like a one huge carnival coming into town with a large number of smaller yet annoying carnival barkers, hustling carnies, and snake-oil peddlers.

    A final note.

    I know that, when I said "so-and-so is one of the good guys," it was based on my personal knowledge of the person at the time, and it was written when that person may have perpetrated only one of the "sins" once or twice.

    However, since making that statement, I admit some of them have gone off and repeated it several times, and sometimes doing it even worse. So my comment may or may no longer be true.

    But again, my goal is not to fingerpoint anyone. It's to highlight the practices and why they are wrong. As the saying goes, "hate the sin, love the sinner."

    I don't want my comments to be construed as guru-bashing.

    I only want people to think.
  • Forced continuity is a poor and lazy substitute for business honesty and the value-communicating copywriting that goes hand-in-hand with it.
  • Michael
    @Michel

    Well said.

    My argument isn't that the small guy should get away with it. Usually he's the one that pays for it the most with lost sales and credibility with his list. But I do wonder where these new marketers learned it from.

    And it is difficult to tell when you are first starting out who's doing what. Even when you give examples of what forced continuity is (and you have done that well in past posts), it is difficult for a new guy to understand what these look like in real life because they present it so well. Once you' ve been in it and around it for a year or two, you can see right through a lot of these gurus marketing.

    In other words, it wouldn't surprise me if someone rather new to the IM world completely agreed with your posts, then turned around and completely agreed with 'so-and-so' guru's newest forced continuity (or continuous 'upsell hell') scheme. This person would likely believe that what your describing is not what the guru is doing, and what's he's doing is not what your describing.

    I'm not sure how best to educate people on this issue, as I agree, you shouldn't go around guru bashing by name.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • @Michael - Agreed 100%.

    Especially in a recession, it's easy to be impressionable when some of the top marketers continue to extol the virtues of their tactics as loud and clear as they do, especially when they hammer the market boasting about the profit potential of such tactics.

    That's what scares me, really. They not only perpetrate these sins. They also teach it.

    The only way around it, as Seth Godin pointed out in his article "Poisoning The Well," is to be louder and clearer. It's to so overwhelm the market with good marketing tactics and good marketing teachings that people are forced to, at the very least, consider your perspective.

    Will it make a difference? I doubt it. I'm not being a pessimist, but I must be realistic.

    After all, the recession is hurting a lot of people right now. And the need to make money, by whatever means necessary in some cases (particularly when survival is at stake for some), is far more tempting than doing what's right -- or, more importantly, avoiding what may be or, at some gut level, "feel" wrong.

    Thing is, while there are a few unscrupulous newbie marketers drinking the kool-aid, there's an equal if not even larger number of people who are seething and resentful.

    That's why I'm doing this because we are also being the voices of a growing yet quiet majority of people who are becoming more and more cynical, disenchanted, frustrated, and angry with such deplorable tactics.

    But again, my goal is to make them think. If I change their minds, then great. But if, at some minuscule, insignificant level, I've managed to accomplish that (make them think), even if it's only with one person, then I'm OK with it, too.
  • Lounder a clearer is the way to go for continuity!

    In my opinion forced continuity can be good depending on the offer. But in most cases is better to just do it as an option.

    Thanks for the great article!

    Sebastian Saldarriaga
    www.SebastianResponde.com
  • Michel,

    Thank you. Seriously. An excellent, unbiased review - what a breathe of fresh air!

    I've been a Michel Fortin fan and follower for years now. Saw you and your lovely bride speak for the first time at Heather's event last October, and was enchanted by you both.

    Now, I'm a Michel Fortin apostle. You totally rock. Thanks for doing that. :-)

    ...jp moses
  • I don't mind transparent forced continuity. From the consumer's point of view, it is a double win. I get something for far less than the market value and get to try out a product. It gets around the loss of physical retail shopping's ability to handle and browse through something before buying it.

    What I don't like about SOME forced continuity programs is the poorly constructed customer support. ( or perhaps deceptively hidden unsubscribe features) I'm currently paying for one program I bought through a F.C. Jeff Walker style promotion. I love it and probably would not have bought it without the promotion. Ironicaly, they also have clear and efficiant customer service and cancellation methods.

    I recently bought another product and was immediately disappointed in both the bonus and the product. And surprise surprise, the unsubscribe info was very hard to find. They managed to squeeze a couple months out of me, and I'm not sure that I want to fight over getting it back. And to be fair, I think that they are just disorganized and didn't make this part of some evil plan. Still, I won't trust anything else that comes from them. A lack of planning and proper resources shot a huge hole in their feet!
  • Continuity is surely a valid tool...there is no reason to not make a living at what you do. But I like the way you put it as "poisoning the well". It simply means that we need to make continuity programs as transparent and well-presented as possible. Consumers will still pay reasonable dollars for quality.
  • It was a very good report.

    Although forced continuity works, people who use it should let their customer know what's going on.

    Franck
  • I really enjoyed this post. I hate forced continuity, especially when it's done in a sneaky way.

    And unfortunately, most of the JV's I'm involved with involve forced continuity. I wish they would read this report and rethink their strategy. I, as a consumer, resent the fact that I've got to get my credit card hit every month in order to get the product you just sold me on. You never told me that upfront so now I don't quite like you or trust you as much. And I will pass up on many a good JV opportunity because I don't want to piss off my subscribers.

    Rhonda Ryder
    Direct Response Copywriter
    www.helpmerhondamarketing.com
  • After following this thread for awhile, it occurs to me that the KEY WORD is FORCED.

    If it's made clear and present, if it's part of the benefit offer, if it's really something you WANT every month, then there's nothing forced about it.

    If, for what you are doing, the word FORCED is accurate description, then maybe you should stop or change your approach.

    Case closed...

    Shawn
  • Tim Johnson
    Michael, I agree with you entirely. [name withheld] pulled the sleight of hand you described in his Twitter auto-follow message. I immediately unfollowed this unscrupulous guy and "outed" his tactic for the benefit of all.
  • howtowriteebooks
    Glad I stumbled upon this post Michael. I have been tempted to change my business model to a forced continuity one, but I just can't get a peace about it. I'm on about fifty internet marketer's lists - some of them are heavy hitters. Unfortunately, I've noticed many of these successful marketers use a deceptive strategy in their forced continuity campaigns. Success often breeds greed for those individuals who can't handle it. Like you stated in your post, it hurts everyone. Looking forward to reading Ryan's report. Thanks.
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